Pronatalism on the Rise to Counter Growing Push for Gender Equality

Pronatalists try to present their ideology as promoting the security of the family, but it is linked to the far-right agenda, uses falsified data to prove their points, and counteracts gender equality.

By Nandita Bajaj

There’s an insidious new tactic emerging for selling right-wing ideology to wider audiences, evident in [the September 2023] Budapest Demographic Summit for “family-friendly thinkers and decision-makers,” the [recent] pro-birth Natal conference in Austin, Texas, and the recent film “Birthgap.” They all peddle pronatalism, a set of norms and policies that exhorts and often coerces women to have more children to raise fertility rates, often coupled with alarmism over alleged “population collapse.”

Pronatalism is on the rise to counter the growing push for gender equality, contraceptive access, and women’s educational and economic empowerment. It is connected to totalitarian policies dictating reproductive choices, the racist Great Replacement conspiracy theory, the religious anti-abortion movement, and tech elite futurism. Elon Musk, for example, is an avowed pronatalist who donated $10 million to population collapse “research” and liked the idea of denying voting rights to childless people. He wanted to attend the Budapest summit, but couldn’t make it so he met [shortly after] in Texas with Hungary’s President Novák instead to draw attention to the “demographic crisis.”

Photo: Janko Ferlič

Lately, pronatalists are trying to pull a more appealing game face. The Budapest Summit says it wants to support the “psychological health and security of families,” so they can “plan for a secure future.” The Natal conference claims it “has no political or ideological goal other than a world in which our children can have grandchildren.” The “Birthgap” film purports to help cure an epidemic of “unplanned childlessness” and proposes “re-engineer[ing] our societies to reduce [it so] many more people would go on to have…children just like parents naturally do.” It conducts tearful interviews with regretful women who lament that their natural drive to have children was thwarted by society, and now it’s too late.

Who could object to standing up for families’ health and security, and for the right of people who want children to have them? Yet behind this innocuous-seeming family-friendly rhetoric lurk unsavory connections to right-wing propaganda, manipulation, and straight-up lies.

The Budapest summit touts Hungary’s achievement of the “highest rates of marriage and childbearing in Europe, while divorce and abortion rates are falling,” a nice way of saying that its right-wing populist leader Viktor Orbán adopted and implemented the Great Replacement ideology, which motivated mass-shooters in the U.S., as state policy. “We do not need numbers, but Hungarian children,” he said. “In our minds, immigration means surrender.”

The Natal conference has demonstrable links to far-right eugenicists and racists. “Birthgap” filmmaker Stephen Shaw is feted by right-wing talk show hosts like Jordan Peterson, Neil Oliver, and Chris Williamson, and presented as a “renowned demographer” despite having no credentials in demography. Shaw and Peterson both gave keynotes at the Budapest summit.

But ad hominem objections to the people behind the conferences and the film aside, the assertions they make are discreditable and counterfactual. Decrying imminent “population collapse” while the global population grows by 80 million each year and is projected to hit 10.4 billion in the 2080s is absurd. To make depopulation seem like a threat, “Birthgap” resorts to lying about data on the reasons for declining birth rates. It cites a 2010 study (which it calls a “meta-analysis”) by Prof. Renska Keizer which the film says indicates that just 10% of women chose not to have children and 10% can’t have them for medical reasons, which “leaves a whopping 80% of women without children childless by circumstance” as opposed to by choice.

But that’s not at all what Keizer’s research says. The 2010 study Birthgap cites is not a meta-analysis, not quantitative, and does not indicate 80% of childless women didn’t choose to be so. In fact a 2011 study by Keizer et al. analyzed a 2006 dataset surveying women in the Netherlands who were childless at age 45, and found that 55% of them were childless voluntarily, while 45% were childless due to medical or other reasons. Other studies found similar results: 56% of those without children were voluntarily childless according to a 2021 Pew Research Center survey, 72% according to the CDC National Survey of Family Growth, and 74% according to a 2022 Michigan State University study. Researchers working on my organization’s fact-checking project Birthgap Facts found no credible data supporting the film’s claim that 80% of childless women were “childless by circumstance” as opposed to by choice.

What the data does show is that women exercising their right to choose if and when to have children results in delaying childbirth, smaller families, and a decline in teen pregnancy. Those outcomes are beneficial and should be celebrated, not stigmatized.

According to the United Nations, at least 12 million girls are married before they reach the age of 18 every year, and more than 650 million women alive today were married as children. Around 257 million women globally face unintended pregnancies due to lack of access to contraception, abortion care, and counseling.

Photo: UN Photo/Manuel Elías

At current levels of consumption, today’s population of eight billion is driving resource depletion, soil erosion, water shortages, species extinctions, and climate catastrophe. Over a billion children are already at “extremely high risk” from climate change. High fertility rates and population growth undermine climate resilience and complicate efforts to end poverty and hunger and ensure basic services and infrastructure.

These are the real threats to the future, not some imagined conspiracy to stigmatize reproductive choices and hold fertility rates down. They make Shaw’s proposal of “social engineering” to reverse the imaginary threat of depopulation all the more reprehensible. By distorting and lying about childlessness, he’s trying to manipulate young people and their governments into prioritizing procreation over education and career. This purports to avoid a dystopian future, yet it would actually usher one in.

Rather than manufacturing a crisis whose remedy entails “social engineering” to roll back progress on human rights and women’s control over their own lives, we should focus on the real crisis fueled by pronatalist pressures from family, religion, and governments that force millions into motherhood against their wishes, often by means of coercion and sexual violence. The rhetoric of the Budapest summit, Natal, “Birthgap” and their ilk claiming they’re simply trying to help families and alleviate the heartbreak of “unplanned childlessness” is insidious, and we should recognize and call it out for what it is: another arrow in the pronatalist quiver, another weapon wielded against hard-fought gains in gender equality and reproductive autonomy.

Nandita Bajaj is the Executive Director of the NGO Population Balance and an adjunct lecturer at the Institute for Humane Education at Antioch University. Her research and advocacy work focuses on the combined impacts of pronatalism and human expansionism on reproductive, ecological, and intergenerational justice.

This article first appeared on Inter Press Service news on 4 October 2023.

Published

30 responses to “Pronatalism on the Rise to Counter Growing Push for Gender Equality”

  1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

    Serious question: how is the Great Replacement a conspiracy theory? We can argue whether it’s good or bad, but it’s definitely something that is happening.

    1. Paul Scott Avatar

      In my opinion, Great Replacement is a right wing narrative used to scare uninformed people that “others” are coming to replace them, when the reality that you speak of is the natural flow of people escaping horrible conditions in their own country due to overpopulation-related issues. If we reduce population growth through education, free and ubiquitous contraception, and full women’s rights in all aspects of society, then the need for huge migrations of people will ebb and eventually stop.

      1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        Paul, I partly agree, especially with your proposed solution, although people do escape countries with no or negative population growth (see Eastern Europe), and I believe that we are all partly responsible for the state our country’s in. But this wasn’t my point, what I meant is that it’s a fact that white-majority countries are seeing their racial/ethnic/religious make-up change. This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s been done deliberately (though I think it is, for the sake of cheap labour), nor does it mean it’s a bad thing – that’s a matter of debate with many valid opinions. Also, some white-majority countries became that way only recently through a “replacement” process of their own, though that’s not really true for Europe.
        What I don’t understand it’s calling it a “conspiracy”. If you take ethnicity as a parameter, it’s obvious we ARE being replaced. Some people are worried, some are happy with it, but it’s a fact, not a conspiracy.

      2. ganzettifrancesco Avatar

        R “If we reduce population growth through education, free and ubiquitous contraception, and full women’s rights in all aspects of society, then the need for huge migrations of people will ebb and eventually stop.”

        Hello Mr Scott.
        I think every situation is different, as universal rights are a big bluff.
        Here in Italy for example we have currently a fertility rate of 1,19 children per couple, that could be translated in 1,19 per woman. But there is an huge discrepance between uneducated poor people in some area of Southern Italy, Naples for example, where fertility rate is well above 2, and other areas where actually poor couples prefer not to have children mainly for economic reasons and sense of responsability. In Italy fertility rate is an issue but is mainly a democratic issue, non an overpopulation issue: we really should tax more family with 3 or more children and give money to only child families.

        Neverthelss something links fertility issue both in Italy and awfully overpopulated areas such as Africa in general and Egypt and Gaza as well in particular, just to take an example from last months news: nowdays fertility rate must be controlled, in a sense or in the opposite one, it cannot be all let to women will to have as many children as they want. Contraception is good, but is delusional to think it can be the main dam to overpopulation in Africa.
        For example regulations in rich countries could prevent donate any money or resources to those organizations operating in overpopulated countries which do not accept to link food, educational and health assistance to those women which do not accept sterilization after second child: I mean religious institutions included. This is the plain truth, or at least something resembling truth.
        We are used to to make abuse of this sentence: ” crime against mankind” It would be more adequate to use it no more, as we are forced to admit that having 100 millions people leaving in Egypt for example or 2 millions in Gaza is a “crime against Nature”, written with capital letter.

        R Nandita Bajaj “According to the United Nations, at least 12 million girls are married before they reach the age of 18 every year, and more than 650 million women alive today were married as children. Around 257 million women globally face unintended pregnancies due to lack of access to contraception, abortion care, and counseling.” Dear Ms Bajaj, to operate ex post is far more painful then prevention, this is obvious, but not operating ex post is more painful that not operating at all. Contraception works in rich countries, and we cannot operate in this sense in dramatically overpopulated countries with contraception only: it is the snake which eats its tail.

        Greetings to all writers and readers.

      3. ganzettifrancesco Avatar

        Part 2 : “R Mr Scott “If we reduce population growth through education, free and ubiquitous contraception, and full women’s rights in all aspects of society, then the need for huge migrations of people will ebb and eventually stop.”

        Hello again mr Scott. I think thta unfortunatelly we must equally take in consideration not only overpopulation, but greenhouse effect as well: at the moment Gaia has compensated increasing temepratures mainly at poles and temperate countries, neverthless at a certain point, may be very very very soon. temperatures will raise sharply even oin countries like Egypt or even more INDIA: in Italy we are 2 degrees above historical temepratures, 2 degrees more in INDIA would have mre devasting effects. Obviosuly this is a reason more to push on reducing population in areas such as India, but it will be far form sufficient to prevent migration.

    2. Stable Genius Avatar

      Year to June 2023, Australian population grew 624K, and 83% was via migration.

      That’s not up for debate as a conspiracy or a narrative, it’s simply a replacement.

      1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        Of course, the current Australian population is in turn mostly a replacement of the Aboriginals.

    3. PHILIP CAFARO Avatar

      U R right: many developed nations have immigration policies that are replacing existing ethnic groups with others. Not completely replacing, but certainly radically and rapidly changing overall ethnic compositions. It isn’t a conspiracy, it’s a fact.

      There’s a bait and switch going on around the terms “great replacement” and “great replacement conspiracy.” There are various views or theories about “who’s responsible” for current permissive immigration policies. The particular “great replacement theory” referenced in NY Times’ articles about this blames nefarious Jews, specified or unspecified. This can fairly be called a “conspiracy theory,” I think.

      However, the Times regularly blames anyone who dares to note the rapid ethnic changes caused by immigration as a “conspiracy theorist” and by implication an anti-Semite. It’s a dishonest way to avoid having to justify continued or increased mass immigration on its merits.

      1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        I think there are different strands. In Europe, the “replacement” is usually blamed on various “elites”, including some founders/early proponents of the EU for having advocated for a mixed continent – after having seen where trying for a “pure” continent got us. Although Italian fascism or French imperialism were actually also about making the Africans “Italian” or “French” through culture, language and citizenship. Empires are inevitably mixed.
        I have never heard of it being blamed on the Jews, with the exception of the usual suspect George Soros.
        Anti-semitism is the new conversation-stopper, the “don’t go there” sign these days. Although it also seems to be losing its potency due to overuse, like many other -isms.

  2. Tim Avatar

    So great to see another article by Nandita challenging the pernicious effects of pronatalism, which is fuelled by other harmful ideologies such as human supremacism, patriarchy, and speciesism. The Antinatalist movement has been slowly growing to challenge and oppose natalist and pronatalist ideologies and policies, and there are now several groups like Antinatalism International, Stop Having Kids, and Antinatalist Advocacy, focusing their efforts on addressing the harms that stem from procreation, harms that affect us all. Philosopher David Benatar is probably the best known author writing on the topic of antinatalism and with his books ‘Better Never to Have Been’ and ‘The Human Predicament’ addressing in detail the problems associated with procreation and its ideological driver, pronatalism. Worth checking out for those new to the topic.

  3. hughd04f05ff6d1 Avatar

    From a demographic point of view – it’s not so much the average number of offspring, but the age of the mother at birth (the intergenerational interval). In N Africa it appears that the intergenerational interval is very short – 15-18 years, I’d guess.

    1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

      This is not true. The average age of the mother makes a difference in the short term but if all women, hypothetically, only had two children over their lifetime, it wouldn’t matter whether they have them at 20 or at 40.

      1. PHILIP CAFARO Avatar

        Both timing and numbers make a difference demographically.

  4. Edith Crowther Avatar

    Sigh. When are people going to stop using the birth-rate for political purposes? – e.g. to promote or attack the so-called “Far Right”. The “Far Right” is apparently only a problem in nations which are – or used to be – primarily “white” (for lack of sunshine reasons which evolved for survival, i.e. Vit D). Non-European nations can be as Nationalist or Nativist as they wish, it seems. China, Japan and both Koreas are virtually mono-ethnic, for example. So are many other nations outside the “First World”. Or, they are “multi-racial” – but exclude “white”races. All such misuse is unpleasant, be it on behalf of minority whites or on behalf of the Majority World. More importantly, it is not relevant to overpopulation which is caused by improved living standards and nutrients, in any species – and which lasts until an excess of numbers over available nutrients diminishes the nutrients too much to prevent a collapse in numbers.
    Is it too much to hope that so-called “educated” people could silently and without polemic follow the example of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who deliberately only had one child and said why – and how. Two is too many – a global population heading towards 10 billion must not, cannot, be replaced but must instead be halved or even quartered (slowly and gently, one hopes, though at this rate it is going to happen fast and nastily). At the moment, I am tempted to accuse the overflowing continents of Asia, Africa, and South America of following the advice given by Benjamin Franklin to an overflowing Europe in the 18th century. The population of Europe – with England in the lead – was exploding thanks to the (still embryonic, in 1750) Industrial Revolution bringing better health. As with all lethal overpopulation, disaster loomed – unless hitherto “empty” continents could be settled (by more or less peaceful waves of settlement).
    “Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.” is a short essay written in 1751 by American polymath Benjamin Franklin. It was circulated by Franklin in manuscript to his circle of friends, but in 1755 it was published as an addendum in a Boston pamphlet on another subject. It was reissued ten times during the next 15 years.
    The essay examines population growth and its limits. Writing as, at the time, a loyal subject of the British Crown, Franklin argued that the British should increase their population and power by expanding across the Americas, taking the view that Europe was too crowded (which it was). Franklin projected an exponential growth (doubling every 25 years) in the population of the Thirteen Colonies, so that in a century “the greatest Number of Englishmen will be on this Side of the Water”, thereby increasing the power of England. As Englishmen they would share language, manners, and religion with their countrymen in England, thus extending English civilization and English rule substantially”.
    Franklin stated that the limit to expansion, reached in Europe but not America, was set when Demand for sustenance exceeds Supply. “There is, in short, no Bound to the prolific Nature of Plants or Animals, but what is made by their crowding and interfering with each other’s means of Subsistence.” – a hard biological and mathematical fact that would inspire Malthus and Darwin (though the latter stayed away from comments on his own species), Franklin also utterly condemned slavery in several essays, for economic rather than compassionate reasons, saying that any importation of foreign labour cheapened and damaged the pool of labour already present. (Not rocket science, eh?). And of course at the time Africans had no need to overflow to other continents, though there were small overflows within Africa itself, notably of the Bantu southwards.
    I really do beg men and women of all ethnicities and nationalities to just do the maths and biology for ANY species, not just our own. It is far far too late in the day to allow maths and biology to become tainted and infected by politics, opinion, virtue-signalling, or even genuine compassion because the latter of necessity does not encompass all victims of human overpopulation, be they other humans or other species. If Franklin could do the math in the 18th century, and Darwin and Malthus in the 19th, surely to goodness we can do it now – or have we really forgotten everything that matters? Where on earth do people think their industrial, agricultural, and domestic waste and sewage is going for a start? It is not being shot up into space, that’s for sure (though maybe it should be).
    Franklin noted that the Native Americans were hunter-gatherers and so not expanding numberswise. (He did not know that centuries before they had been overdeveloped and highly civilized and urbanized, and that some sort of massive collapse had ensued.) He noted that by contrast, farming and industry in the European style causes huge increases in human numbers. Must we all go back to hunter-gathering? I hope not. But, I have yet to hear of a sensible alternative proposition. Hunter-gathering is not wholly uncivilized, according to archaeologists. All the same, I am highly reluctant to embrace it, and in any case there is not the space for it at the moment. There would be space if global population was A) 2 billion and B) not into shopping and hot showers,. Are A+B ever going to happen? We shall have to wait and see ……

    1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

      China is actually multiethnic (though mostly Han-dominated) and Gandhi had five children, one of which died soon after birth.

      1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        But I do agree with your observation that it’s odd how some countries are allowed to control migration and wish to be more homogeneous, but others aren’t. It’s one thing to say: “I want my country to be diverse”, another to imply “those that don’t want a diverse country are evil”.

      2. Edith Crowther Avatar

        Thanks Gaia – I had not realized Gandhi had not followed his own advice, in his ardent youth. Roman Catholic schoolchildren in England were (in my day) taught his views – anti artificial birth control but pro self-control – as being the ones to follow (since Christian educators tended to avoid being explicit on this topic). E.g., “There can be no two opinions about the necessity of birth–control. But the only method handed down from ages past is self-control or Brahmacharya. It is an infallible, sovereign remedy doing good to those who practise it and medical men will earn the gratitude of mankind if, instead of devising artificial means of birth-control, they will find out the means of self-control … Artificial methods are like putting a premium upon vice. They make man and woman reckless. And the respectability that is being given to the methods must hasten the dissolution of the restraints that public opinion puts upon one. Adoption of artificial methods must result in imbecility and nervous prostration. The remedy will be found to be worse than the disease. …….”
        Imbecility and nervous prostration – love it. He was more blunt than a person from Yorkshire ! More quotes –
        “It is wrong and immoral to seek to escape the consequences of one’s acts. It is good for a person who overeats to have an ache and a fast. It is bad for him to indulge his appetite and then escape the consequence by taking tonics or other medicine. It is still worse for a person to indulge in his animal passions and escape the consequences of his acts. Nature is relentless and will have full revenge for any such violation of her laws. Moral results can only be produced by moral restraints. All other restraints defeat the very purpose for which they are intended. I am afraid that advocates of [artificial] birth-control take it for granted that indulgence in animal passion is a necessity of life and in itself a desirable thing. The solicitude shown for the fair sex is most pathetic. In my opinion, it is an insult to the fair sex to put up her case in support of birth–control by artificial methods. As it is, man has sufficiently degraded her for his lust, and artificial methods, no matter how well-meaning the advocates may be, will still further degrade her.
        I urge the advocates of artificial methods to consider the consequences. Any large use of the methods is likely to result in the dissolution of the marriage bond and in free love. If man may indulge in animal passion for the sake of it, what is he to do whilst he is, say, away from his home for any length of time, or when he is engaged as a soldier in a protracted war, or when he is widowed, or when his wife is too ill to permit him the indulgence without injury to her health, notwithstanding the use of artificial methods.”
        How prophetic that has turned out to be, as we survey a world mired in the frightful consequences of what Christians call “Lust” (within marriage and outside it). Whilst “Lust” seems more socially acceptable in the Orient, perhaps due to the hotter climate, none of the oriental religions condone it – quite the reverse.
        Gandhi stressed, as Christians both Catholic and Protestant do, that the sole purpose of intimacy is procreation – this is certainly going against the flow now, and probably was in his day. How can one reconcile “solely for procreation” with prevention of pregnancy? This is where Gandhi’s frankness was useful, whilst Europeans still tiptoe around the topic. I believe the 1982 film about him put words in his mouth which he may not have said, but which contain his opinion in a nutshell, namely “Have one wife, and love her so much that you do not inflict more children on her than she wants”. Maybe his wife wanted 5 babies – if not, in his youth he might have strayed from this path – but which of us has not made mistakes in our youth? In any case, nothing prevents a society from having this as an ideal, however many people end up falling short of it.
        Given that in Hinduism, Buddhism and Christianity at least a third of men used to be monks or celibate priests or at least confirmed bachelors, espousing Gandhi’s view on marriage and children would once have meant that married women could have more than one child if they wanted without doubling the population exponentially at intervals. A great number of women never married, or retreated to a convent if their husband died young. Infant mortality and a horrific death rate of women in or after pregnancy also played a part, but not the main one and we should be able to leave this aspect firmly in the past. Women also had little access to consumer goods – even as late as the 1960s in the West, and as late as this century in the Global South. Was this really as cruel to women as it sounds? I was enormously happy as a girl, reading, sewing, playing outside, playing cards and boardgames, very rarely listening to a radio programme or a TV programme. I can’t speak for boys, but they seemed equally carefree. By contrast, today’s children (and adults) seem anxious, unhappy, and prone to self-harm, despite the vast array of “pleasures” available to them.
        In short, the onus is not on women to damage their souls through abortion and artificial contraception, but on men to save their souls by returning to one of the many things they excel at – true religion. Some men in grossly overpopulated countries have done this by having “virtual” girlfriends, or withdrawing from society in other ways than monasteries – I am thinking of Japan with its Hikikomori, and I believe South Koreans are resorting to this too. In the West we have these “Incels”, who people are very rude about – perhaps they would be less obnoxious if Inceldom had higher status than being some sort of (fake) Stud. Failing mass Inceldom, I am afraid Mother Nature has a trick or two up her sleeve, if you examine global sperm counts.
        Interestingly, Ben Franklin had some surprising views on “manliness” based on “virtue”, reminding readers that “virtue” comes from the Latin “Vir” (Man) and ought to be the primary goal of all Men. I like to imagine Franklin and Gandhi meeting up and chatting daily about the daily news these days – but my imaginative powers really cannot do this scenario justice, What on EARTH might either of them say, confronted with today’s topics and facts, never mind the even weirder opinions? The mind boggles. Just “I told you so”, I suppose, but this seems a bit lame and I feel their language would be a lot richer than I can muster.

    2. Erik Avatar

      For a long time I’ve thought that a major question underlying a lot of this stuff is whether or not human beings are different from plants or animals that try to endlessly grow their populations and consumption of resources until natural limits force them to shrink. If humanity would do “degrowth” voluntarily that would confirm that we have more intelligence and agency than bacteria in a petri dish. Unfortunately the events of the last ten years or so have me increasingly thinking that the answer is no and that the only thing that will put a stop to human expansion will be the inherent contradictions of the system in combination with the exhaustion of natural resources. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of news that point to a voluntary degrowth future. It’s a shame – I really don’t want to go back to hunter-gathering…

      1. Edith Crowther Avatar

        Enviably short and to the point. Thank you. This may seem irrelevant, but I was at Canterbury station waiting for a train just before Christmas when 3 generations spilled out from the Chrismas pantomime (Aladdin) at the local theatre. One father was playing a video of the show on his smartphone to keep his children quiet until the train came – and I was astonished to hear a famous 1990s song by Gala being sung by the cast. It was “Freed From Desire” – a 1996 Eurodance song which became a huge hit all over Europe, and I believe the rest of the world too. “My love ain’t got no money, he’s got his strong beliefs” …… of all the influential pop music of the 20th century, this has to be the most important and lasting marker of a sea-change in popular perception of what makes a man strong. All the same, I was slightly astonished to hear it as the finale of Aladdin at Canterbury in Kent, a county not known for its anti-consumerist opinions – and I asked the dad if he knew it came out in 1990s. Oh yes, he said – great song. The grandparents then chipped in with reminiscences of their own childhood in the 1940s – which, not unexpectedly, had been austere but happy.
        So if this is typical (and I bet it is), it has not taken long for the “aspirational” native working-class and middle-class of Europe to become not just disillusioned about Consumerism, but totally disgusted by it. So perhaps humans can be as clever as bacteria are in developing resistance to antibiotics, and develop an equally cunning and indomitable resistance to Consumerism …….? But I do think we will need an existential threat (like antibiotics are to bacteria) to push us into doing it.

      2. ganzettifrancesco Avatar

        R Erik “Unfortunately the events of the last ten years or so have me increasingly thinking that the answer is no”
        Sa, but true, because contraception methods work well in developed countries but are totally not sufficient in less developed ountries and I think that a compulsory control of feminine fertility is way better then waiting for a total collapse of natural resources, as you point out.

      3. Erik Avatar

        R Ganzetti: Forcibly sterilizing people would certainly be effective, but it’s also very brutal and inhumane. Mowing people down with machine guns and bombs would also reduce the population size very effectively, but you have to draw a line somewhere. People who are concerned about overpopulation are sometimes accused of being evil eugenicists – I obviously think that’s wrong, but advocating for population reduction through very harsh and invasive means does make us kind of seem that way. The population shrinking “naturally” through fewer people being born than dying seems like the most humane option, and the one most likely to be popular among the largest group of people.

    3. ganzettifrancesco Avatar

      Thank you Edith for your interesting post; I want just to let you enlight that without nitrogen fetilizers processed from fossil fuels, global agricultural production would be cut by half: most modern tecniques of permaculture can grant food just to 4 billions of people, more or less, as marked by Lovelock in many passages. Sir James Lovelock (The famous author of Gaia theory), furthermore states that we need to give back to woods at least 1/4 of agricultural lands, not only in order to create corridors of wilderness for animals, but also for omeostasis of atmosphere. So we do not need to to come back to hunting and gathering, but we need to reduce our number to 3 billon people more or less, ore or less equally distributed considering local territories abbundance of natural resources such as mild climate, fertile soils, water….This cna be done with good manners or bad manners, but must be done. That translates in to the fact that no woman must be allowed to have more then 2 children in overpopulated countries…(almost every single one…)
      You know, ”
      Spare the rod, spoil the child”

      R “Franklin noted that the Native Americans were hunter-gatherers and so not expanding numberswise. (He did not know that centuries before they had been overdeveloped and highly civilized and urbanized, and that some sort of massive collapse had ensued.) He noted that by contrast, farming and industry in the European style causes huge increases in human numbers. Must we all go back to hunter-gathering? I hope not”

      1. Edith Crowther Avatar

        Yes – but you know, it is for Men to lead the way as Gandhi pointed out (and Franklin too, in his advice about Manliness). Men have been so denigrated in recent decades that they underestimate their own power to heal and overemphasise their power to do harm. A few exceptional women have a useful amount of brain power (but not muscle power) – but they are the exception not the rule. By contrast it is my opinion that most men – whether highly educated or not – are good at whiat I will call “discernment”, for a want of a better word.
        It seems likely, to me, that a human society that has pressed “Self-Destruct” will accentuate the feminine and attenuate the masculine – we see many examples of this in the history of past civilizations and empires, and I am certainly far from the only person to have this opinion, in fact I am simply repeating words written by long-dead historians (all MEN of course). So it is not MY opinion, unsurprisingly. I presume bookworms’ poo is composed of digested books …….. and is probably quite useful in common with other kinds of poo.

  5. gaiabaracetti Avatar

    Edith, I don’t think we’re going to get population contraction just by preaching sexual self-restraint. The Catholic church tried it in Africa… we see the results.
    Sexual moderation or even abstinence are a great option for those who are so inclined or forced to be celibate against their will, but people have very different sexual drives and if our main objective is for human numbers to decline with as few early deaths as possible, contraception is one of the best tools we have.

    1. Edith Crowther Avatar

      If by “sexual drive” you mean the drive to reproduce – which is the only drive that Nature recognises – then all the evidence shows that this drive drops sharply in overcrowded conditions (Japan, South Korea, China, much of Europe, all of South America and all of Africa and all of Australasia – and now even the vast USA is massively overcrowded for its consumption levels).
      I used to puzzle over why Russia does not have a higher birth rate, as it appears to have plenty of room and plenty of resources – and I still do puzzle. I can only suppose that extreme cold coupled with staggering levels of industrial pollution, have severely reduced the carrying capacity of this vast region for humans, and indeed for other large species. Corroborating this guess, is the tragedy of Canada – another vast biocapacity which seems to have been one of the first to plunge into lethal unsustainability, despite low human population density.
      Carrying Capacity is a funny thing – not taught at school, and actively denied by most adult humans. Carrying Capacity? – Que? Was ist das? It needs to be common parlance in every language. I wonder, for instance, what it is in Italian – or any other language come to that. Language is vital in human evolution – it has separated us from other primates (never mind other species) by several galaxies-worth of distance, and it will continue to do so if we use it well

  6. PHILIP CAFARO Avatar

    Brahmacharya is actually a very effective contraceptive method, when used in conjunction with a vasectomy. I can attest to this personally.

    1. Edith Crowther Avatar

      Thanks. I have only just learned this word, through being forced to look up Gandhi’s actual words on “birth control” by Gaia’s welcome correction about the number of children he had, and not rely on some handsome Jesuit priest’s digest of these for a group of schoolgirls. According to wiki (a great place to start as usual), it means more than just Celibacy, and includes Asceticism in other bodily functions such as eating and drinking. It also applies within marriage of course – and Christianity too promotes chastity within marriage (but not a spartan lifestyle in other respects). This is most evident and eloquent in the marriage service in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. This is often deliberately used in “period” dramatizations of Georgian and Victorian books to underline how different society in the West was back then (in what was arguably its heyday). It is rarely used in real life these days as it is severe and uncompromising about the nature and purpose of marriage.
      The other thing that emerges from faithful period dramas (and books if anyone reads them), is how interdependent the rich and not so rich and the poor were – until technology gave us all “independence” via washing machines, cars, etc. And how immersed in Nature everyone was in their daily life – even the very rich. How could it be otherwise when your own bodily wastes could not be conveniently whisked away to distant landfills, incinerators, etc., though if you were lucky you had servants to dispose of your chamber-pot and any other “refuse” (not much of this, even for aristos, by today’s standards). Some of my neighbours in a “backwater” of Britain remember that human excrement was collected by men in “dunny-carts” as recently as the 1950s, as a lot of people still did not have proper plumbing. These men were like the “rag-and-bone” men, and their carts were sometimes horse-carts (more poo, but manageable).
      Nor could the waste and carcasses of your livestock and pets be disposed of so readily, in the recent past. How many “rendering” plants are there now in Europe and North America? – and their number must be growing steadily in the Developing World too as they embrace mass production of “cheap” meat. And no-one even wants to mention the amount of dog and cat poo produced daily in nations where the majority have a pet of some kind, or more than one.
      Everything is whisked away for us as if we were aristocrats, nowadays, in sewage systems and other Effluent Management Systems which help us deal with the results of Affluence.
      I know I am being tedious and even annoying for people with lofty ideas about how we are going to solve things, but I get upset when people claim that contraception plus a less consumerist lifestyle will be a solution. It is not going to be that simple, or that pleasant. But obviously, a holistic lifestyle change (and NO PETS) would be palliative, and this is where humanity needs to be in 2024 – namely, providing an “easeful death” for all the things that we take for granted, from “pets” to paracetamol.
      And tying this in with manliness, I do not believe it is “manly” to have a domestic pet (as opposed to a farm dog), quite the reverse. Incels do not seem to have them, though I don’t know any Incels personally, but how could they afford a pet? So once again, we are back to the “odious” Incel being the epitome of manliness instead of the complete erasure of it……… in which case, they might not need to load up with quite so many guns in order to prove how manly they are, just one or two for self-defence and/or hunting wild game. Preferably antique ones, not those horrible ugly things made in China or Czech Republic. Yes, I too am guilty of having lofty ideas …….. but at least mine START in the gutter, and do not ignore its existence.

      1. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        A compost toilet is one of my life goals (funny given that many billions of people’s life goals probably include a flush toilet).
        I agree about the pets, but I don’t think it’s about manliness. I think it’s an extension of the selfishness we see in every realm of life. Pets are whatever you want them to be, especially if you ignore their actual needs, and they love you “unconditionally” (because, unlike the wildlife which is free, they have to). Dealing with humans, who can tell you off when you’re being obnoxious, is a lot harder.
        You cannot put people in a cage to cheer you up or keep you company. Well, not anymore and not legally, at least.
        Even as someone who is very glad people are having less children, when I see them substituting children with pets I think we live in a very sick society. There’s lots of other things you can do if you’re not having kids. The whole “kids or dogs?” debate is so weird. Given that many dogs end up in shelters or are abused, it’s actually tragic.

      2. gaiabaracetti Avatar

        “If US pets were a country, they would rank fifth globally in terms of meat consumption – greater than Germany. ”
        https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/04/want-to-truly-have-empathy-for-animals-stop-owning-pets

  7. […] low fertility, and many politicians are increasingly concerned not about rapid population growth, but rather by rapid population loss. Globally, one in four people lives in a country whose population has peaked, and begun to […]

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